Atheism, Universal Negatives and Stuff

Have been reading friend Wildilocks' online stuff. Being an atheist (a nice one), she sometimes writes about that. Here's something I replied to one of hers...

The “knowing God can't exist” argument gets people sometimes, and people on both sides of the divide make mistakes in their thinking imo. eg I came across a slightly erroneous article not long ago where the writer says:

Sophomoric critics of atheism often charge that atheism is committed to proving the negative proposition "no gods exist" and, since allegedly no one can prove a negative, this shows that atheism is an absurd doctrine. The first thing to note is that it is often possible to prove negatives. Euclid proved that there is no highest prime number. I can prove that my bicycle is not in the basement by going downstairs, turning on the light, and looking around.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/keith_parsons/misconceptions.html

But it's not “proving a negative” that is impossible. It's proving a UNIVERSAL negative that is impossible, and this is both good logic, and misunderstood by the writer in question.

For example, take the statement “no aliens have ever visited earth”. I don't personally believe aliens have visited planet earth – but I can't prove that, because I don't have all knowledge about all alleged visitations on earth at all times (universal knowledge). So if pressed, the best I can do is say “From what I know, I don't believe it likely that aliens have visited earth. But I might be wrong.”

In the same way, I cannot state – in a logical sense – “No gods exist”. If pressed, the best I can do is say “From what I know, I don't believe any gods exist. But I could be wrong.” So technically, it's correct to say only agnosticism is valid. (Epistemology is an interesting, but arcane subject.)

HOWEVER, most of us aren't entirely logical in every single thing we do/think. I think it's perfectly ok to say: “I can't prove there is no god, but I think the evidence is so overwhelming against her existence, that I call myself an atheist. So that atheism might be called the extreme end of agnosticism. I am thinking of Dawkins' chapter title “Why There Is Almost Certainly No God.”

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Here is the bestest article ever on atheists and christians being nice people to each other because they actually have things in common http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/godfuse.html

I also learned a new word: Transhumanism. Generally, the use of technology to expand human capabilities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism and http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index


listening to Helix - Afterglow (my new trance track i made - it's good!)

The Dawkins Disillusionment

Picked up Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion in Borders tonight. I was expecting not to enjoy it, as he has a reputation for being a rude, grumpy bigot in writing (the opinion of a number of atheists I know, ironically) , and the little I've read of his backs this up. EthicsDoctor who I picked up from the airport says he has a reputation for being nice in person.

Anyway, the first chapter was quite warm, welcoming and engaging and I thought "yay, maybe this will be different". So I turned to chapter 3 where he treats philosophical arguments for/against g0d. And he pooh poohed the cosmological argument in less than two pages! With virtually no argument, and weak argument at best.

I immediately lost respect for him. He might be a great scientist, but some basic research would tell him that the cosmological argument is currently very strong in philosophical circles. (Half my major was in philosophy for my second degree.) It wasn't when Dawkins was an undergraduate many decades ago, but it is now. To be fair, he spends a few more pages on the ontological argument, and quite a bit more on the teleological argument - I imagine because it has implications on his own field, of biology. But again, he seems ignorant of how strong the design argument is, and trots out the same lame old arguments that were dismissed twenty years ago.

I'm sure he would rightly be concerned if someone tried to present the evolutionary biology of 20, 30, 50 years ago as current.

I may be premature. Unfortunately i can't quote from the book as g0d hasn't blessed my with the money to purchase it ;) But at some point I will read the whole book, much as I read the Da Vinci Code, because it's trendy. I hope my small delve into it doesn't portend Dawkins' scholarship is as weak as Dan Brown's.


[Edit: Many of the reviews the The God Delusion I've just read online imply that i will be in for more unpleasantness after all, when I do get to read the full thing. One commentator said: "the proportion of insult, ridicule, mockery, spleen, and vitriol is astounding." Oh joy.]

listening to Opeth | Godhead's Lament (brilliant gutteral death metal fused with 70's prog rock)

Satan Wants Illegal Immigration

Ahh, my dear interwebs. If ever the dictum 'truth is stranger than fiction' needed confirmation, we need look no further than you.

Surfing the net, as you do, when you should really be in bed... and saw a link to this. I shouldn't be astounded by the idiocy of ignorant religious people (matched only by ignorant non-religious people). But I am. Come ON guys, are you serious?

Note that "christians" here may well be "mormons", given this is Utah. (Quite different in belief, in spite of appearances.) But don't worry, trinitarian theists can be just as ignorant as polytheistic do-gooders. *snark*

CALEB WARNOCK - Daily Herald

Utah County Republicans ended their convention on Saturday by debating Satan's influence on illegal immigrants.

The group was unable to take official action because not enough members stuck around long enough to vote, despite the pleadings of party officials. The convention was held at Canyon View Junior High School.

Don Larsen, chairman of legislative District 65 for the Utah County Republican Party, had submitted a resolution warning that Satan's minions want to eliminate national borders and do away with sovereignty.

In a speech at the convention, Larsen told those gathered that illegal immigrants "hate American people" and "are determined to destroy this country, and there is nothing they won't do."

Illegal aliens are in control of the media, and working in tandem with Democrats, are trying to "destroy Christian America" and replace it with "a godless new world order -- and that is not extremism, that is fact," Larsen said.

At the end of his speech, Larsen began to cry, saying illegal immigrants were trying to bring about the destruction of the U.S. "by self invasion."

Republican officials then allowed speakers to defend and refute the resolution. One speaker, who was identified as "Joe," said illegal immigrants were Marxist and under the influence of the devil. Another, who declined to give her name to the Daily Herald, said illegal immigrants should not be allowed because "they are not going to become Republicans and stop flying the flag upside down. ... If they want to be Americans, they should learn to speak English and fly their flag like we do."

Senator Howard Stephenson, R-Draper, spoke against the resolution, saying Larsen, whom he called a "true patriot and a close friend," was embarrassing the Republican Party.

"I agree with 95 percent of this resolution but it has some language that is divisive and not inspiring other people to its vision," he said. "This only gives fodder to the liberal media to give negative attention to the Republican Party."

Joel Wright, a member of the Cedar Hills City Council, was booed as he opposed the resolution.

"This might be the most divisive issue in the Republican Party," he said. "I support President Bush but he needs to support this issue harder."

When Wright said "the economic benefit (of illegal immigration) outweighs the downside" he was jeered. He warned that the Republican Party of California had "killed themselves" by taking a hostile stance against illegal aliens.

He also said the LDS Church has studied the issue and tried to determine whether illegal aliens could be given temple recommends and allowed to serve missions but "gave up" because the issue was too complex. He ended by saying "President Bush needs to fix this now" and was booed again.

Larsen was allowed to finish the debate with a one-minute speech.

"If the Democrats take over the country, we will be dead, and we will have abortion and partial-birth abortion and the Republican Party will go into extinction," he said. "Nancy Pelosi and the ACLU would oppose this (resolution)."

A member of the audience moved that the convention suspend its rules to allow the "objectionable part" of Larsen's resolution to be stricken, retaining only the final paragraphs of the resolution, which condemn illegal immigration. Eventually party officials counted all delegates in attendance, only to discover that, with 299, they were about 30 short of a quorum and could take no action.

"I did ask people to stay so we could have this discussion," said Senator Curt Bramble, R-Provo, who chaired the convention. Bramble had earlier asked those gathered not to thwart a discussion on the resolution, saying it would be "good for the party."

In other business, those gathered voted against removing some of the party's leadership.

Letters supporting the re-election of party chairwoman Marian Monnahan and secretary Susan Bramble were mailed in envelopes bearing the party's return address, causing delegate Russell Sias to demand they be removed from office. A spokesperson for Alexander's Print Advantage, which handled the mailing, spoke at the convention, saying employees had mistaken put the address on the envelopes and the company took full responsibility for the snafu.

In a speech, Enid Greene, state Republican Party chair, announced to applause that she will remarry in a few months. Greene's first marriage came to an infamous end during her tenure in the U.S. House of Representatives when her husband, Joe Waldholtz, who was her campaign manager, was charged with embezzling. He eventually pled guilty to campaign fraud and other charges.

Greene said she was disappointed in BYU professors who protested Dick Cheney's visit to campus, calling them "self-appointed intellectuals."

"I'm not calling for BYU to fire them but if no one signs up for their classes ..." she said. "If they say the Vice President doesn't have anything to say we want to hear, I'm not interested in having my daughter learn from them."

All of the speakers praised those gathered. Lt. Governor Gary Herbert said Utah County Republicans are "guided by correct principles" and are the "best of the best" of the Republican Party.

Bramble assailed those who would called the local Republican Party "broken," saying the party was accountable and accomplishing good work, including the approval of school vouchers and granting UVSC university status.

Congressman Chris Cannon and Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff both received a standing ovation from some members of the audience. Cannon said Democrats have just as many corrupt party members as the Republicans but the media does not report Democratic ethics violations.

Shurtleff said that while Americans are divided on the war in Iraq, Salt Lake Mayor Rocky Anderson should not refer to President Bush as a war criminal.

Caleb Warnock can be reached at 443-3263 or cwarnock@heraldextra.com.
This story appeared in The Daily Herald on page B1

from http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/220065/4

Global Ethics, Stupid Vegans

I've been reading a little into Animal Ethics, and of course Peter Singer is one of the seminal recent thinkers here. Regardless of whether one finds his ethical theory compelling - here is one easily understandable essay that doesn't - this article of Singer's in New Internationalist impressed me with its clarity on global responsibility.

Somewhere along the way, I bumped into this very sad story of a vegan couple recently convicted for the murder of their baby. It does not prove veganism is bad, only that stupidity is. However, according to this article, while a vegan diet can be ok for adults, it is not adequate for infants.

Best Excuse Ever

Hee hee hee. Thanks to Wildilocks, get well soon.

re-listening to untitled psy track by Me (inspired after listening to Manmademan). I surprise myself, it's actually not bad.

Intellectual Pursuits

I've finished reading Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides. Good novel, believable sympathetic characters and settings. It's made me aware of intersexualism and hermaphroditism which, while unusual, is not as rare as one might think.

I've also finished Principles of Druidry by Emma Restall Orr and concluded I don't want to be a druid. It's well written, though descends into waffle occasionally. I found it attractive for a short while. It tickled my fantasy racial memories of noble celtic wise people. But I finished the book feeling repulsed. One of the main reasons being neo-Druidism doesn't seem to have anything to show it is true. I'm sorry to those who bought the once-trendy idea that truth is a relative thing, but i can't get away from that. If someone can't give me more evidence for their spirituality than "it feels true for me", or "I have nice experiences doing it" then i feel like it's a waste of time for me. Much as I'd like to, I can't 'believe' what i know ain't true.

I feel like I'm not putting that across right, or not being senstive, or something. But if other peoples' feelings count, then so do mine. And my feelings say no religion at all is preferable to one that is knowingly made up.

I watched Alien again last night with all the flatmates here and across the road. It was a fun experience, as several hadn't seen it, and Gardenergirl screamed satisfyingly.

My back is sore, my fingers are sore, my arm is sore. My coffee is hissing, gurgling and choking on the stove signalling it is time to consume.

See? Other People Agree With Me

This goes nicely with this post :)

Bigups sinfest

I Would Like a Great Lake of Beer

I would like to have the men of Heaven
In my own house:
With vats of good cheer
laid out for them.

I would like to have the three Marys,
Their fame is so great.
I would like people
From every corner of Heaven.

I would like them to be cheerful
In their drinking.
I would like to have Jesus too
Here amongst them.

I would like a great lake of beer
For the King of Kings,
I would like to be watching Heaven's family
Drinking it through all eternity.

Celtic poem from 10th century Ireland

Man, those Irish Celts, eh? Pity I don't like beer.


listening to Hard Hat | Eat Your Head (a track I'm creating)

Spreading the Meme

Just in case you haven't seen the hilarious Internet vs Real Life

Literacy

I've just read Thomas Harris' Hannibal in 24 hours. Good book, don't know that I would rave over it the way the reviews on the cover do, but i thoroughly enjoyed it. Have started Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides (who wrote the Virgin Suicides). This also looks promising. The life of the mind is the pleasant life.

listening to Goldenhorse | Cold Mountainside

How to Live Well

How do you behave when you know the conventional honours are dross? When you have come to believe with Marcus Aurelius that the opinion of future generations will be worth no more than the opinion of the current one? Is it possible to behave well then? Desirable to behave well then?

Thomas Harris, Hannibal, page 164

This is a variation on my long-pondered theme that if there is no ultimate source for ethics (most likely from g0d; there don't seem to be any other options) then there is no real right and wrong, and selfishness is the only rational ethic. I will write more on this one of these days, as so many people are under the illusion - from an unacknowledged theistic past - that people have real value and should be treated well. If we live in a naturalistic 'verse, people have no more value than mud.


listening to Camisra | Solid Ground

It's All About Me

Uh oh. Yet more online video. Some years ago in a church i was put off by how self centered the "worship" seemed to be. Now someone's decided to market it - check out the rather humorous Me Worship.

Thanks to Saxpest from BLJ for passing this on.

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And flatmate PoetryMan introduced me to young Lasse. This is a rather clever piece of music, and illustrates how i make music myself - by building it up from samples. Unlike Lasse, I can play guitar passably and piano falteringly.

listening to Cripple Mr Onion | Six Days of Silence

New Favourite Band: Opeth

Doom Metal meets Blue Oyster Cult meets classical and folk music? I believe it's called progressive metal, although no-one seems to agree. Whatever, it's good. They're from Sweden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opeth
http://www.opeth.com

And while we're here, check out the hilarious video interpretation of Slayer's Angel of Death. Thanks Tatjna. "Hey, Johhny Depp!"


listening to Opeth | Serenity Painted Death

Getting Off Your Face For Jesus

Friend pornoculture posted this Huxley quote elsewhere, which has made me think a bit.

A similar conclusion will be reached by those whose philosophy is unduly "spiritual." God, they will insist, is a spirit and is to be worshiped in spirit. Therefore an experience which is chemically conditioned cannot be an experience of the divine. But, one way or another, all our experiences are chemically conditioned, and if we imagine that some of them are purely "spiritual," purely "intellectual," purely "aesthetic," it is merely because we have never troubled to investigate the internal chemical environment at the moment of their occurrence.

Furthermore, it is a matter of historical record that most contemplatives worked systematically to modify their body chemistry, with a view to creating the internal conditions favorable to spiritual insight. When they were not starving themselves into low blood sugar and a vitamin deficiency, or beating themselves into intoxication by histamine, adrenalin and decomposed protein, they were cultivating insomnia and praying for long periods in uncomfortable position in order to create the psycho-physical symptoms of stress. In the intervals they sang interminable psalms, thus increasing the amount of carbon dioxide in the lungs and blood stream, or, if they were Orientals, they did breathing exercises to accomplish the same purpose.

Today we know how to lower the efficiency of the cerebral reducing valve by direct chemical action, and without the risk of inflicting serious damage on the psychophysical organism. ... Knowing as he does (or at least as he can know, if he so desires) what are the chemical conditions of transcendental experience, the aspiring mystic should turn for technical help to the specialists-in pharmacology, in biochemistry, in physiology and neurology. And on their part, of course, the specialists (if any of them aspire to be genuine men of science and complete human beings) should turn, out of their respective pigeonholes, to the artist, the sibyl, the visionary, the mystic-all those, in a word who have had experience of the Other World and who know ... what to do with the experience.

- Aldous Huxley 'Heaven and Hell'

I am not at present sure if we have a spirit as such or where it interacts, but I agree with my friend that we are much more physical than many believe. It's been one of my hobbyhorses for years that, if one accepts Y'shuan theology, Jesus was physically resurrected, now has some kind of body, and there will be a new earth in teh world to come.

I have only recently realised i am, by my practice, a supporter of drug-induced happy states. I must be, I drink alcohol, which is a drug. I also take caffeine, another drug, rather more than i used to. My alcohol use is sometimes with the intention of getting tipsy. (I stay away from getting really plastered, but it's a slippery slope definition.) Which is not to say i therefore support ALL drug states; I have never taken any other recreational drugs.

I haven't ever had what i consider a spiritual experience while drunk. And I am still of the opinion that drug experiences aren't spiritual, although will ponder Huxley's point that all our experiences are chemical-physical ones in the brain.

Two of the practicing neopagans i most respect are adamant that drug experiences are not spiritual experiences, and i've already quoted a buddhist monk saying the same thing.

I am wondering if drugs could be a gateway to the spirit, but we are not equipped to handle them in a discerning way, much like we are not equipped to handle encounters with other spirits well. (see http://www.christian-thinktank.com/sh6end.html and http://www.christian-thinktank.com/eyesopen.html for what i think are very insightful discussions of this topic)

listening toSaeed and Palash | Losing Control